Expression >
Forums - Accueil
>
Expression Web and SuperPreview
>
EW3 causes fatal bliue screen crash after install
EW3 causes fatal bliue screen crash after install
I've seen sevearl posts about this problem. I had it with the trial copy in the summer and just bought the shrink wrap copy hopeing it was fixed.
The install itsel appears to complete but as soon as EW3 starts I get the blue fatal screen.. Only way to get the computer to restart was to clean the registry key and rename the EW3 folder in safe mode.
Someone mentioned font files that are called out in an event log. Other than that, I don't know what to look at for this.
I might add that figuring out that the problem was EW3 and then how to get the machine back to a usable state was no small task.
Worse, my new EW3 can't be installed.
Réponses
- Bill,
The OP is running XP SP 2, he needs to install SP 3.
Expression Web MVP- Marqué comme réponseCorrie WilesMSFT, Modérateurjeudi 1 octobre 2009 00:01
Toutes les réponses
- What operating system.
What registry key are you deleting?
There is no reason EW should keep a machine from booting.
Did you read the Installation Support post:
http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/1e8e37b6-0dea-4ac6-ad92-f07c45f5429a
Expression Web MVP - The trial copy of EW3 and the purchased version are the same thing, other than that the trial times out.
Can't help you with your issue, but have you checked the "Installation Support" post? - See
http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/web/thread/bf863995-edbb-4184-ae68-d473cf5aa567#bf863995-edbb-4184-ae68-d473cf5aa567
for history on this problem. Something do do what bad fonts.
OS: XP SP2
The registry clean tool I used is the Windows Installer Clean Up
I agree, you would think and MS product on an MS OS would not do this. Go figure.
Anyway it does and as soon as EW3 starts at the end of the install or on reboot you get the blue screen - Bad fonts only cause EW to immediately shut down, they do not cause a blue screen.
Also, installing EW does not require a reboot nor does the EW installer ask for one.
You need to install SP 3 for XP and then install Expression Web 3.
Expression Web MVP- Proposé comme réponseSteve EastonMVPdimanche 20 septembre 2009 14:41
- "...you would think and MS product on an MS OS would not do this. Go figure."
EW doesn't do "this" on most systems. Most people have no problem with EW. It's not the OS or EW, it's your computer. Something's corrupted on your computer. Now that we're done playing the blame game, can we move on?
If you're running XP (as am I), your computer may have some age on it (as does mine) and something may have gotten corrupted over the years.
It might be a problem with the .NET framework. Is it installed properly and updated to the right SP? You might try the following...
Uninstall EW
Uninstall .NET framework starting from the latest version and working backwards
Search this forum for references to a .NET cleanup tool to download (I'm rushing out soon or I'd look)
Then, when everything's copascetic, install the .NET framework, working your way up through the numbers to ver 3.5 and SP1
Install EW.
Rinse
Repeat
And, truthfully, I don't know that it's a .NET problem for sure; it has been for others. We don't have access to your dump logs, etc. so you should also use the links in the post at the top--Before Posting--to get installation help from Microsoft. - Bill,
The OP is running XP SP 2, he needs to install SP 3.
Expression Web MVP- Marqué comme réponseCorrie WilesMSFT, Modérateurjeudi 1 octobre 2009 00:01
- Mike,
I agree with Bill re the .Net Framework. It's a good place to start. I also agree that something on your machine is seriously awry; something is topping your OS in its tracks.
You may have a rootkit (malware) or some other malicious software that is causing issues. There is a nice little free app called MalWareBytes. You can find it here: http://www.malwarebytes.org/ . When you run the scan, run it from a cold boot, and don't have any apps open; just let it do its thing. I had a rootkit that was causing a BSOD. I ran the app, and the BSOD has not happened since. It may not help you, but it's worth a try.
The next time you get the BSOD, write down the Stop Error code. You can research the code and perhaps get some ideas as to what's happening. Also, be sure to look in Event Viewer to see if there are sytem and/or application errors at the time of the BSOD. Once you have the event ID(s), you can research those for possible solutions.
Does the BSOD happen only with EW, as you describe above, or does it happen with other apps, as well?
I hope you get it sorted out. If you do, please let us know what it was, and how you fixed it. Thanks.
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA The Gilded Moon-Sierra Nevada Photography- ModifiéPreston B dimanche 20 septembre 2009 20:22Fixed a few typos
- Steve:
Not according to Microsoft... http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SysRequirements.aspx
They say SP2, not 3. I had already checked before I made my previous post. They also call for SP2 on the actual download page. - Steve,
There is no requirement listed for XP SP3. http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SysRequirements.aspx says XP SP2 should do it. - I would install it anyway.
The post really does not make sense, as EW won't blue screen a machine on boot unless a user has manually set it to launch on boot up, and then it would just abend as it does with the font issue.
Also the install does not require nor ask for a reboot.
Expression Web MVP- Marqué comme réponseCorrie WilesMSFT, Modérateurjeudi 1 octobre 2009 00:01
- Non marqué comme réponseCorrie WilesMSFT, Modérateurjeudi 1 octobre 2009 00:01
I would install it anyway.
There is one known problem that can cause a blue-screen with Expression Web but I had thought that was restricted to Chinese versions of Windows. The issue there is an outdated system DLL; upgrading the OS using Windows Update or Microsoft Update solves the problem. We don't do anything on system startup, so there is no possible way that we could prevent the user's system from restarting properly.
The post really does not make sense, as EW won't blue screen a machine on boot unless a user has manually set it to launch on boot up, and then it would just abend as it does with the font issue.
Also the install does not require nor ask for a reboot.
Expression Web MVP
We really don't do anything at the system level, actually, so even the original blue-screen is unlikely to be in our code. Other than the guesses that have already been suggested, the only other thing I can think of is to make sure that the video drivers are updated.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web- Since I too have the same problem and can't find any recommendations that seem to work, thought I'd add my .02 into the mix.
Win XP, SP2
.NET update installed fine ... rebooted and the system was stable, other apps working fine (Office, CAD software, browsers, etc.).
Installed EW3 upgrade ... seemed to install fine.
... Upon starting EW3, entire system crashes to blue screen.
... Reboot brings me back up and stable, but EW3 crashes entire system.
... Looked through the event viewer but don't seem to see anything reported by EW3 before death.
Uninstalled EW3 and .NET, reinstalled, same thing.
So besides suggestions on other software being an issue (several scans for malware, etc. have been done and the system is clean), any other helpful thoughts?
Thanks. - Video drivers are often the problem with blue screens.
Make sure you have the latest drivers for your card (from the manufacturer, not Windows'), make sure your video card has enough RAM and supports teh level of Direct-X needed.
Drop the Hardware acceleration lower: Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, Troubleshoot. Drop it a notch at a time and try it. - Ditto.
Same set up, same problem, same uninstalls, same re-installs and same blue screen.
EW 3 never starts, just constantly reboots PC.
Other apps such as DW CS4 work fine.
Happens on both EW 3 upgrade and full version. Suspect there are hundreds of others with the same problem who have not found this fourm. - I still think you should install XP SP 3.
Expression Web MVP- Proposé comme réponseSteve EastonMVPmercredi 4 novembre 2009 23:04
- Mr Easton,
You are correct.
Same IBM PC, same configuration, same software applications, same XP Pro SP2, updated to XP to SP3. After the SP3 update, ALL THE INSTALL PROBLEMS ARE GONE.
THANK YOU.
Somebody should tell the MS boys that the XP SP2 system requirement is NOT true and is most likely ticking off many other XP SP2 customers. MS has cost me much unnecessary wasted time. Shame on MS.
Too bad MS doesn't spent as much time testing new applications, before they go out the door, as they spend trying to prevent "illegal copies."
The EW3 experience and other MS application bug experiences have soured my view of MS to the Unix breaking point.
Again, thank you for your sound advise.
NEC Code Doctor - Fine. Switch to Unix. Switch to Linux. Switch to OSX. We. Don't. Care.
What probably happened is that your computer had a corrupted file someplace. The SP3 replaced it with a new, uncorrupted version. Problem solved.
It's not that EW3 needed SP3, it's that your computer was faulty.
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc strikes again. - Uh huh.
Yep, must have been my PC, certainly not MS.
Mr Easton has four MVP ribbon medals and he was CORRECT about SP3 and it also appears he does CARE.
Again, THANK YOU to Mr Easton for the fine help.
NEC Code Doctor - If the problem were with EW, EVERYONE would be having that problem.
But they aren't.
There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of people using the program without a hitch. Therefore, logically, the problem can be isolated to causes outside of EW--your computer. Which had a problem that SP3 fixed, even though SP3 isn't required to run EW. - Hi,
I had the same problem as NEC Code Doctor's. My computer is running Windows XP sp2 which should meet the requirement of EW3. It crashed my computer when I installed EW3. After that , the computer kept restarting itself (blue screen). I decided to reformat the computer and reinstall Windows XP sp2. After the installation, I installed .net framework 3.5 sp1. Then I restarted the computer to make sure it's not the .net framework cause the problem. It was fine. Then I installed EW3 and it crashed again before it finished the installation. The computer began to restart itself - the same situation as before.
I was quite frustrated. Finally I tried to install EW3 on another computer which is running WinXP sp3. It was successful and run OK. I don't know if Windows XP sp3 should be the minimum requirement. For me, the whole process doesn't really make sense to me. I really wonder if anyone successfully run EW3 on XP sp2 machines.
Nettechbc
- That was a different computer--SP3 wasn't the only variable, was it?
Why didn't you install SP3 on the original computer? That would seem to be the next logical step. - C'mon now, Bill? Logic? Remember, this is the EW forum... ;-)cheers,scott
Plural's don't have apostrophe's. It seem's sometime's that any word's ending in "s" get a gratuitous apostrophe. Apostrophe's are used to indicate possessive's and elision's (contraction's or abbreviation's). - "Logic? Remember, this is the EW forum... ;-) "
Too funny, Scott! I needed a good laugh.
I returned home on Wednesday after an eight-day photography trip to the Sierra East Side. On most mornings at my campsite in the mountains above Mono Lake, the temps were running in the low 20's. By Sunday 10/4. we had a serious snow storm going, and on Monday morning the temperature at my site was eleven degrees F! I now have a terrible cold, but am on the mend, thankfully.
The mountains were awesome and incredibly beautiful! However, it's good to be back in my home that doesn't flap in the wind, sleep on my own bed, rather than in a mummy bag, and sip my coffee with warm hands!
Thanks for the laugh,
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA The Gilded Moon-Sierra Nevada Photography - After the install of EW3, my system constantly goes blue screen. It didn't do it before. In fact, I have two systems doing it -- XP running through VirtualBox on MacBook and XP Pro running on PC. Both are doing the same thing. Different systems, same problem. Definitely after EW3 install!
- Not everyone, but enough to indicate a problem with EW3.
- Shouldn't a program this expensive and "reputable" at least check for bad DLLs, fonts, etc. before it installs and then proceeds to crash the system, even when it's not running. This is one of the worst programs I've ever tried to install (I'd say use, but I haven't gotten that far yet). I'm really sick of seeing "it's your computer" - yeah, maybe it is something in the computer, but a properly designed program would check before it corrupts the entire system. I'm getting a Blue Screen of Death now and I'm not even running EW3 or any of it's components! Sure as ____ wasn't having the problem before installing it -- AND it's doing it on two separate systems.
>Shouldn't a program this expensive and "reputable" at least check for bad DLLs, fonts, etc. before it installs and then proceeds to crash the system, even when it's not running. This is one of the worst programs I've ever tried to install (I'd say use, but I haven't gotten that far
(1) Expensive?! $79 for Expression Web, Expression Designer, and Expression Encoder, expensive? Take it from one who just purchased Design Premium CS4 a while back, if you think 79 bucks is expensive for that package, you don't want to go anywhere near where they're selling CS4.(2) Do you have proof that the program crashes the system "... even when it's not running?" Crash dumps? Anything that enables you to state without equivocation that EW3 is crashing the system even when it's not running? No? Didn't think so.scott
Plural's don't have apostrophe's. It seem's sometime's that any word's ending in "s" get a gratuitous apostrophe. Apostrophe's are used to indicate possessive's and elision's (contraction's or abbreviation's).- Proof? You mean other than the fact that my systems NEVER got blue screens of death before I installed it? It's called cause-and-effect,
- ModifiéAnna UllrichMSFT, Modérateurlundi 9 novembre 2009 22:14vulgar language
Let's cool our engines, here, folks. Let's get back to solving the problem, rather than creating a hostile environment.
Thanks,
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA The Gilded Moon-Sierra Nevada Photography- I have read all the post dating back to early September and I can't believe that you guys are actually defending EW3. I installed this product and I get the blue screen of death just like at least 2 other people here are saying. I had absolutely no problems before installing this product. This product has issues. I'm sorry, I am not buying the "It's your computer" stuff.
- OK, just a question here, no more. If it is the program's fault, how can it be that everyone with the exception of two other people and yourself aren't having the problem? No, seriously, think about it for a moment, OK? Consider it logically—if the program is at fault, shouldn't everyone who runs the program have the same problem, and not just an isolated very few?Oh, I realize that there are probably a few more than we've seen here, but really, pretty much everyone with EW and a problem usually ends up here eventually, and as you know we just haven't seen that many people reporting this as an issue. I run both EW2 and EW3 on both XP SP2 and Vista Ultimate, with zero problems. If there were a program fault with EW causing your issues, wouldn't I, and the thousands of others using EW2/3, have seen them, too?Please, google the logical fallacy termed "post hoc, ergo propter hoc." EW may have exposed systemic problems that already existed because it uses parts of the system that other programs do not.Consider, as a Web development program it uses many subsystems—graphics, telecommunications, media, ordinary text editing, language regionalization, etc., a whole panoply of ancillary system, any one of which might have one single out-of-date DLL or other problem that is only exposed when EW initializes. But, it couldn't have caused those problems to begin with, or else everyone who runs it would exhibit the same failure mode, is that not so?cheers,scott
Plural's don't have apostrophe's. It seem's sometime's that any word's ending in "s" get a gratuitous apostrophe. Apostrophe's are used to indicate possessive's and elision's (contraction's or abbreviation's). - My better half used to work for a company that audited quality control systems and consumer feedback relating to electronic products for a major brand name. She once told me they determined that less than 2% of purchasers actually go out of the way to register a formal complaint and that price point was a leading factor as to how far people would go to seek resolution. The Price even for the full version of EW3 is below the action level for most people if they are buying it for work and is still probably in the 2% or so range for personal purchase. Some of those buyers are forcing the distributors to respond and I would bet that the number of people getting to this forum must be in the order of a fraction of a percent. While there may be thousands or hundreds of thousands of good installs there may very well be thousands of bad ones too.
In my very limited realm of EW3 users (about 9) there is one total failure and two unhappy due to other problems and one firm I know of where EW was tried and dumped because they did not want to waste resources. So total fail is running better than 10% in my case and unhappy is another 20% or so. Those are very bad numbers for any product.
From a consumer perspective at some point the entire argument about fault becomes moot. Mad customers care not about the nuances of "their systems" because they may not have any other problems. I may be an idiot as some of my past comments may lead some to think but many of these posts from very upset consumers here tell me that there is some culpabillity on the part of MS in not finding some of these issues. I think what is seen here likely represents a fraction of a percent and that means there are a lot of unhappy folks.
Regardless of exact cause it can be said that product credibillity is on the line for many people.
The return policy of many retailers is going to get tested with this one. - Let's look at this from a technical perspective. Expression Web is a user-mode process. A blue screen is caused by a kernel-mode crash. Therefore, the problem is most likely with a driver operating in kernel memory. My first suspicion would be a problem with the video driver.
If I were troubleshooting this on my machine, I would boot into safe mode with networking and try it. Switching the video driver to standard VGA and trying it would also be a good test.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
http://www.jimcosoftware.com
http://www.jimcobooks.com
Author of:
Microsoft Expression Web 3 In Depth
Special Edition Using Microsoft Expression Web 2
The Microsoft Expression Web Developer's Guide to ASP.NET 3.5
Special Edition Using Microsoft Expression Web
My Expression Web 3 blog on Network World:
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/10560 - Senn,
Paladyn (Scott) can have some razor sharp comments and can be a bit less tolerant sometimes and come off a bit too critical on occasion but I having been reading and inserting my dumb notions here myself for a while now and I have become acustomed to his style and his wit can be amusing at times. He is very knowledgable and has been a good resource for me and many others. I understand how you feel slighted as well. I have been ground up myself here a few times but it seems like after some time to reflect and research what has been said that in most cases they have been right.
I am not defending him and as you gather I am not defending MS because I think that they can do better. I am just saying maybe its better to think of these folks here as teachers in a sense and we have all had tough ones who rub us wrong. Scott has corrected my bad spelling more than once and at first I was insulted but now I expect it. If he is a perfectionist to some degree then lets capatalize on it and make it work for us too.
I guess what I am saying is I understand your anger but in the end it is still a community of sorts. - Bob,
You know a heck of a lot more folks running EW 3 than 9. Look at the posts by folks on this forum who have at least installed and tried EW 3 whether or not they ended up purchasing it.
What is the number one complaint?
The interface color followed by the lack of customization. The inabillity to customize toolbars, menus and use add-ins. If the program was really as unstable as you seem to think don't you think it would be the number one complaint? The single longest thread on this entire forum relates to the black interface - my quick poll thread. (If you haven't already added your two cents to that thread, please don't since MS has agreed to offer an alternative in the upcoming service pack.)
IF the crashing or install issues (which does seem to be more prevelant than the crashing problems) were half the problem that you seem to think it would surely be the number one issue on this forum instead of the interface color/lock.
I've personally done over 30 installs of Expression Web myself on a variety of machines ranging from XP on a netbook to Win7 Ultimate (including beta operating systems), inlcuding on two Macs via Parallels. Processors and ram have ranged from the low power chips in the netbook to six year old laptop process to very sweet desktops with serious graphics cards. In all of those cases I did have one - just one case where EW 3 became unstable. Launch EW 3 and immediately it would shut down. That didn't happen immediately either but after a couple of weeks of running fine. FWIW, that was on the computer I use daily and am us8ing rght now. Other programs were running fine, so what caused the crashing? In my case it apparently was a bad sector on a ram chip. So whay was EW the only application failing to launch? I haven't a clue.
Is Expression Web 3 perfect - NO, not anywhere close. Should MS have released it in its current incarnation? My opinion - again no. Why? Not because of the number of people who have crashes or even the install issues (though install failures due to bad fonts should not happen, sloppy error checking) but because they removed something that is at the core of why I use Microsoft products. That's the ability to modify the interface to how I work. I modify my operating system menus, desktop, quick launch, start menu. I move things around in Outllok's toolbars, use the quick menu or whatever they call it in Office after setting it up how I want. I use a Vista over OS X because I can set it up easier for how I work. (I modify things on my Mac too but it is more of a PIA). Frankly, I'm not as happy with MS as i used to be because of this trend I'm seeing to limit how you can set-up their OS and applications but that is not the same as saying the program is a serious failure.
MS has heard the complaints and at least they have someone in here paying attention and responding. (Thanks Paul) They are fixing some of these issues. The bad fonts causing install failures I believe is one of the things Paul said is being fixed. I would like to think that the pounding MS has gotten over the interface issues and others over the last few months will mean this is the last time that MS will fail to have a beta version of Expression Web widely available since doing so might have avoided many of these problems in the release version. Will it? Who knows?
BTW, if you think MS has been getting complaints go and Google Fireworks CS 4 and crashes on Macs. As with Expression Web, Fireworks CS 4 has been stable on my Macs but during the beta I had at least one version that wouldn't install at all similar and crashes like crazy as being reported all over. Worse than you see with EW 3. (For the record I'm an active participant in the Adobe web design/front-end web development community as well as this one so I see things from different perspectives at times.)
MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes Not according to Microsoft... http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SysRequirements.aspx
That's because at the time we wrote those requirements, we weren't aware of a problematic interaction between Expression Web 3 and Windows XP, Service Pack 2. We're working on updating the requirements now, as well as trying to track down the specific issue. I'm reasonably certain that this is an OS issue, not ours, although you can definitely fault us for not catching this sooner and documenting it.
They say SP2, not 3. I had already checked before I made my previous post. They also call for SP2 on the actual download page.
I don't think this catches everyone, so there may well be some system configuration issues or driver interactions that exacerbate or mitigate the underlying issue. Until we have this completely worked out and debugged, the rule of thumb is that if you're on Windows XP, you must have a fully updated operating system (which is a good idea, anyway).
On behalf of the team, I apologize for not catching the error and for not updating the system requirements sooner. If/when I can get more information, I'll post here.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web- Bob, you are generalizing on *way* too little data. As a teacher of mine once said, "the plural of anecdote is not data." The data we are receiving, on this and other forums, via MSConnect, internally, and via the retail chain, simply do not bear out your assertions or your predictions.
I'm not going to defend the release of Expression Web 3 but I will tell you that it was no more or less buggy and no more or less well received than were Expression Web 1 and Expression Web 2. We are listening to our customers, we're fixing the most common complaints in the upcoming service pack, as well as adding a couple of long-requested features and fixes, and we've explained and apologized for some of the errors that I agree that we should have caught before we shipped. What more would you have us do?
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web Cheryl,
As I said and admit I have made some comments that have from time to time rendered me an idiot in the browser of truth. The point you make about my statistical analysis not considering those on this forum is valid and well taken. At least we seem to be in general agreement regarding the release maybe being a bit rushed.
Paul,
Your point is also well taken and perhaps the service pack will take some of the edge off my critical perspective. I have come to expect a lot from Microsoft and I feel that if any company has the resources or talent to perform beyond the expectations of the customer it must be MS. To that end you must be held to the highest standard and expectations for you at MS must be higher and more demanding. Time and again it has been driven into my head at work that we buy MS products for that reason, almost, until recently at least, to the exclusion of other companies products if possible. You bet we expect well tested trouble free products.- Bob,
I think we can definitely agree that a wider testing group would have been better and if that had happened maybe some of the things being addressed in the service pack would have been in the release version.
As for holding MS to a "higher standard", I don't agree with that. All software needs to be held to a high standard just like I hold websites too. (Sadly, so many fail, sigh.)
MS MVP Expression Tutorials & Help http://by-expression.com and online instructor led Expression Classes - And I sometimes wonder how they get it as right as they do (except for the black interface ;-) ). Apple has it so much easier--working with a controlled hardware system and limited outside developers (comparatively speaking).
I can't imagine the permutations of doo-doo on users' Windows computers--all the stolen software, the garbage code, the Albanian text editors, the release 0.0.2 of the latest beat mixer, the pirated infected files. It must be a nightmare. And yet it gets done.
And I think there is a huge difference in whether someone complains about a glitch in an MP3 player or whatever and the purchaser of one of only 2 types of this kind of productivity software (DW and EW). You're comparing apples and carburetors when you compare the necessity and expectations of consumer electronics and workmen's tools.
And, Paul--I'm stealing your teacher's line: "the plural of anecdote is not data." Thank him or her for me. Priceless. - You're welcome to the line, Bill. I'm pretty sure it wasn't original with him, either, but I don't know who the real originator is.
Four different operating systems, each with multiple SKUs, configurations, service packs, QFEs, drivers, software, etc., nine different languages, five different publishing protocols tested against dozens of servers, multiple supported browsers, etc. It's pretty much a miracle that we get as much *right* as we do. The malfigured font crashing bug is a classic example of the kinds of problems we have to deal with and the difficulty in finding and testing all those issues before we ship.
In the case of the issue that started this thread, our test team believes they've narrowed it down to a bug in the Windows XP version of SxS.dll. With the latest version of that dll, everything is fine. With an earlier version, not only can launching Expression Web cause a blue-screen crash, but even launching Expression Web Setup can cause a blue-screen crash.
Technically, you don't need SP3, since you can get an updated version of SxS.dll via Microsoft Update even if all you have installed is SP2. For safety's sake, though, we're probably going to start recommending SP3.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web - KB article on blue-screen issue: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943232.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web - Web Expression 3 crashes to a blue screen while installing on XP Pro SP2. After reboot, it crashes again. I have tested with 2 computers and even from a clean XP Pro SP2 Install. There is no denying a major problem with Expression 3 and XP Pro SP2. Acknowledge it, and fix it. I am 6 hours in and a dozen attempts with complete clean installs of drivers, .NET 3.5 and all other recommendations except SP3 which I will now try based on this forum. But please note, all Microsoft documents ask for XP SP2 - you guys need to change this.
Whoever the guy is that keeps says "its your computer" is wrong, but should win an award for being Microscoft faithful. I love my Microsoft world, but Microsoft really blew it with Expression 3. A HUGE waste of time so far - I have never had 6 hours of crashed computers and reinstall attempts in all the years from Win95 up, but, I am driven to make things like this end up working.
This is more fuel for the Mac ads and less confidence for me to upgrade to any new Microsoft stuff. Let's see some responsibilty for a failed intall on your own OS - and fix it too. If XP SP3 doesn't do it, I'm taking my copy back to the store for a refund - and reconsidering recommending to any of my clients that they upgrade to any new Microsoft product.
Still I hope for the best and appreciate all the work that went into a product that crashes my computers. Microsoft still makes the best development tools in the world - IF you can get them to run. It had been 4 years since I had seen a blue screen - that's ending on a good note, right? -Dave - Did you even bother reading the posts just before yours? The fix is there.
- Truth be told, Dave, it's *your* responsibility to keep your computer updated with the latest updates from Windows Update. Had you done that, you wouldn't have wasted 6 hours on this because you would have never had a problem. You demand that Microsoft fix this. Well, they did a while back and that fix was pushed to Windows Update. You just didn't install it.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
www.jimcosoftware.com
www.jimcobooks.com - I don't think this is an XP SP2 error solely. I just purchased the software and have gotten the BSOD 3 times now, twice on installs - uninstalled it, then reinstalled when I decided to purchase. Then again just a short time ago when I attempted to start EW3, after it was successfully installed.
I have XP with SP3. I can run DW 8, Photoshop CS2, and several other programs simultaneously with no crashes. Needless to say I'm disappointed with the program.
I will be buying a Windows 7 system soon and hope it works without crashing on there. It's not worth my time fiddling with it on this system. I'll stick to DW for the time being.
- Did you try the fix in the article Paul posted a link to? The article does not say it is restricted to SP2.
- No, I work from home and use my computer on a daily basis. I don't want to fiddle with anything that might put me out of commission. Since I'm getting a new computer soon, I'm just going to wait and hope the new computer clears up the issue. Just wanted to point out that it wasn't just a service pack problem.
- Could be the bad font issue instead of the service pack issue
Expression Web MVP The font issue causes an exception in user mode memory and will never cause a blue screen. The blue screen is definitely something else.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
jimcosoftware.com
jimcobooks.comCould be the bad font issue instead of the service pack issue
Pretty unlikely, since that's just a mishandled exception. It brings down the application but should not bring down the operating system.
What many people fail to realize is that Expression Web, in and of itself, lacks the ability to bring down the operating system. That's why the guesses are mostly around drivers, .NET 3.5, and the various OS APIs. It takes something running with those kinds of privileges, with that kind of access to the core, to bring down the OS. Expression Web can't do it.
That doesn't make this any less frustrating to those who experience these kinds of problems, but it is the reason why we have a limited ability to help. Once we know of an issue, as with SxS.dll on Windows XP, we can point to the problem and the solution. For anything else, we're running just about as blind as anyone else.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web- I guess my user-mode vs. kernel-mode memory point didn't quite explain it. :) I often forget that I'm a geek and not everyone is.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
jimcosoftware.com
jimcobooks.com I guess my user-mode vs. kernel-mode memory point didn't quite explain it. :) I often forget that I'm a geek and not everyone is.
Understood, but why does this just appear when running this software, when as someone else also said, I haven't see a BSOD for many years? You said it can be a video driver. Other programs certainly use the video driver don't they? I run tons of software on my system and have not had this problem with anything else.- If a program uses/touches a driver/file, not in the program itself, in a different way than other programs do, it could expose a problem you don't otherwise see.
ADDING:
Or memory, for that matter. Note Cheryl's example above of a huge number of sucessful EW installs, and one problematic one that turned out to be due to a bad sector on a ram chip, yet only EW stepped on it and showed the problem.
An example: Years ago I had a disk drive slowly cooking and dying because the fan had stopped working (unknown to me). The first program to die certainly was assumed, by me, to be the culprit: if I turned it off, everything else worked. If I turned it on, nothing else worked. Clearly, a recent update to that program was at fault, by all logic. Except it wasn't, which became apparent when other programs and services starting dropping like flies many weeks later, and I eventually discovered the non-working fan as the root cause. Just goes to show that "why?" for computer errors can sometimes be complicated.- ModifiéKathyW2 mercredi 11 novembre 2009 17:36
- When it blue screens what is the message on the screen?
Expression Web MVP - Vicki,
According to a previous message from you, you've already got Windows XP SP3 installed, right? If you do, the best way to narrow down what might be causing this would be for someone to look at the kernel dump that gets created when the blue screen happens.
If you double-click on System in Control Panel and then click the Advanced tab, you'll see a button in Startup and Recovery that says Settings. Click that. In the Write Debugging Information area, select the option to create a Small Memory Dump (that should be sufficient for a stack) and make note of the path. Once you see the issue, let the machine reboot and then go to the folder where the dump is and zip up all the files. If you make those available to me on a site somewhere, I will debug it and see if I can tell you which component is at fault.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
jimcosoftware.com
jimcobooks.com - Okay, I think these are the 3 dumps from the 3 crashes I experienced.
http://www.v-web.biz/temp/minidump.zip - Your blue screen is caused by kernel-mode memory corruption. Because of that, I can't tell you which driver caused the problem. Your best bet would be to open a support incident with Microsoft and let the OS guys review this. They deal with drivers often, and one of the many that are loaded on your system might be a clue to them. They also might want you to take some steps to try and get better data prior to the corruption. We have ways to do that with user-mode processes, but I'm not an OS guy and I don't know how they would troubleshoot that kind of thing.
Bottom line is that this is caused by a driver doing something bad, but I can't get you any closer than that with a mini dump.
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
jimcosoftware.com
jimcobooks.com - Okay, thanks for taking a look at it.
- Hi Paul,
Unlike most of the posts on this thread I found yours to be useful and not argumentative.
I didn't have the BSOD but rather my XP SP2 box would simply reboot the instant I tried to run WE3. After looking through this and several other threads and trying:
Installing Office 2007 updates
Turning down acceleration
Redoing the .net updates
I finally tried putting on SP3 and presto it works.
Now my grumbles:
It's been since this summer that the font issue was known ( didn't run into this ) and not too long after that for the sloooow install issue (ran into this and btw the same thing happens on the uninstall > 4 hours to do). I'm a bit shocked that the download sites dont have some sort of up to date readme thing that could be updated when serious issues are encountered and reported. That info alone would have saved me lots of time. Perhaps too many nimrods have sued MS over stuff when y'all have tried to be more proactive, but man the issues that I've run into simply installing the trial version on a supported configuration really make me wonder what other issues I've got ahead of me.
Looking forward to using the product.
Thanks again for your informative post.
- I appreciate the compliment but please do keep in mind that just about everyone here is a volunteer, giving of their time and their expertise without any compensation. And after posting here for a while, in some cases years, you start seeing the same old stuff over and over again, and it can get pretty frustrating. It's not too surprising that this can result in some impatience.
You have a valid point about having an updated Readme or FAQ on, or linked to from, the download center. That's not my area, so I honestly don't know whether there are legal or PR issues involved, or whether this was just an oversight. I'll pass the suggestion along and see what kind of response I get.
I'm happy to hear that everything is working for you now.
Paul Bartholomew
Microsoft Expression Web - Just an update, I purchased a new Windows 7 system and EW3 was one of the first things I installed. Happy to say it is working fine!
