Multiple Forms / Login
I am working on a website that has a series of different forms (12). Each form will span many pages because I want to have one question per page so that the user does not get confused; therefore, some forms will span many pages (the largest would have 78 web pages). This website would have over 200 pages with one question each. To me, this sounds huge, but I cannot think of another way of doing it. Does anyone have any suggestions.
Also, there is a main site. If a person wants to have access to the forms, they must purchase them. Therefore, all of the forms need to be secured. Do I need to create two separate websites, or call all form pages be easily locked down?
I apprecaite any help I can get. I've worked with forms before in Frontpage, but I did not have to lock them down.
All Replies
One question per page sounds rediculous and I can't imaging anyone wanting to go through 78 pages.
Can't you group the questions into pages? Four or five pages would be the maximum I'd go for.
As for securing and paying for them, this could be quite complex. Securing is one thing, and you could use a relatively simple log-in for this (ASP.Net or PHP). Payment is a different issue. You need a payment provider of some sort, a secure (SSL) certificate for the payment pages etc. Not a trivial excercise.
Ian
MS MVP Expressionhttp://www.ew-resource.co.uk
http://www.fp-resource.co.uk
Ian Haynes
Too true! Especially if they know ahead of time there's that many pages lying in wait.One question per page sounds rediculous and I can't imaging anyone wanting to go through 78 pages.
You don't mention what you are doing with the form results? And as for paying -- are you talking about paying once and then having access to the forms? Or like a store, where whatever form a person wants, they pay for that form? If it's the latter, you are talking something like a shopping cart, if it's the former, you could use the Spicelogic ASP.NET Paypal control
Oh -- and whenever you find someone willing to pay to fill out a form, send them to my new website :=)
ClarkNK, QVP
HomePage Doctor CHO
HomePageDoctor.com -- Expression Web database tutorials
Ownertrades.com -- Created with FP, Access, Bots and Wizards
MyNumbersTracker.com -- Created with Expression, VWDExress, SQL Express, and ASP.NET.Unfortunately, I have a 21 page government form.
I did not think about grouping. Thanks for the suggestion. I should be able to break it down into chucks.- Also, keep in mind that the web is stateless (Having no information about what occurred previously). You say a form spans several pages. This can't happen. A form is limited to a single page. You have to create the system so it knows what was previously done. You have to carry state across the entire system.
How I would approach this, for a newbie, is create a single page form with your security and payment in place. Perfect a one-page system. Then break it up into several pages.
edited: I think you may mean paper form and I am referring a web form
--
Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP
Resource Center | Veign's Blog | Web Development Help
Get a Complete Website Analysis by Veign The form results are going into a sql server database.
Thanks for the advice (everyone). I'm going to employ the recommendations given.- Why would anyone want to *purchase* a *government* form?
Or have to for that matter.
I know the economy is bad but jeesh....
FrontPage MVP - Heh, heh... ;-)
My thoughts exactly. On the occasions that I have had to fill out government forms, it was seldom voluntary, and never at a price!
cheers,
scott - "...it was seldom voluntary, and never at a price!"
Scott, do you mean your never paid the price of your sanity when filling out any government form? ;-)
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com Too funny...
It's a form that one has to use in order to do a certain type of business with the government. Therefore, people HAVE to complete the form.
The form is very hard to complete - lot's of essays and terminology.
Currently, people pay anywhere from $1,500 to $5,000 to have someone else compelte the form for them. It's a very tedious process when done over the phone (6 to 8 hours).
10,000 forms are submitted to the government each year....
I'm just trying to streamline the process... at the moment, no one else has done this.... and, of course, the profits on this coiuld be very nice. :o)
I'd be happy with just 10% of that business.- Ok, let me play devils advocate just a little bit more.
So, people actually hire others to complete this form!!
Let's say that I am one of those whe need to hire someone.
What advantage is there for me, to pay, to be able to access the form
on your website?
The form itself is free from the government..correct?
Are the pages that contain the form segments going to have instructions or examples I can read
that explain how to fill out the form?
Second question is, how does the completed form get sent to the government agency
that is supposed to receive it?
FrontPage MVP - Steve, believe it or not, now that she has clarified the objective, I can actually see where this scenario would work. Earlier in my life I was federal civil service, in DISQC (distribution) at Robins AFB. There were companies and individuals who contracted with the Air Force to provide goods and services, or to purchase, for example, equipment and supplies from DPDO (Defense Property Disposal Office). These folks had some onerous paperwork to complete to even enter the process to be considered for dealing with the government, and that was back in the 70's, before much in the way of environmental impact considerations and while EEO and minority ownership consideration was in its infancy. I shudder to think what it must be like now.
There are consultants and firms who make a healthy living either consulting on or filling out grant proposals. I would imagine that if the value-add on these pages is significant, in terms of help in understanding government expectations and completing the various sections of the form correctly, it might be a winner, both for the prospective government contractor and for the site owner.
cheers,
scott Scott, you are right on the mark.
The form is free. The form itself does not contain the directions. However, there is a separate document for that. The form is 26 pages. The directions are 38 pages. The form and directions are not stored in the same place (strange, but true). The form itself is slightly complicated, and if it is not completed correctly it will be rejected. Once the form is completed, the originator must sign them and send it in.
The only benefit to doing this online is that you don't have to be on the phone for 8 hours with someone. You would be able to break this down into segments and do it when you had time (part of the package for sale is the ability to pick up the phone and ask questions along the way).
I know this sounds really strange. I had a hard time wrapping my mind around it also.Think of taxes. We can get the forms and instructions for free. However, many people go to an accountant or buy a computer program to walk them through it. Filing taxes is a huge business. The Gov't has many other processes in place where third party individuals are paid to complete forms.
Kathy,
It sounds less strange now though, and as Scott said is beginning to make sense.
Now, the need is to figure the best way to do this.Since you said there are 26 pages to the form, it makes sense that you would want
26 on-line forms in order to replicate the paper version as closely as possible.
However, I am thinking editable .pdf files that the user can then print and / or save
as each one is completed.
To control access you are going to need to add a registration feature, that enables
people with a registration / purchase confirmation to access a password protected
folder on the server, where the 26 *forms* are stored.
Then, only people who are registered can access the forms.
Scott, I am fairly familiar with the military and forms.
Navy. 25+ years.
Got a unique story about: blue and gold paint, patents, coprights, sole source justification,
and Navy auditors.
FrontPage MVP- By registration feature, I'm assuming you mean the logon feature?
I cannot seem to find alot of information on the logon feature (however, I did just obtain a copy of the microsoft expression web developers guide to asp.net 3.5). I can see how to create a membership (logon), but is there a way to do it so that the pages are locked in groups?
For example:
Part I
Part II
Part II
Part IV
Each group would have several pages linked to it, and the user would need a separate id/password to obtain access. In other words, I want to be able to control who sees what (perhaps a person only pays for Part I, etc.). I'm thinking that I would have to supply the id and password for each part.
I think that I need to code each page to blocks someone out unless they sign in with the correct id/password. - I don't have the book you're talking about, but whatever you're using, if the site has more than the login page, there should be code to authenticate before displaying each page on the site. Instead of maintaining separate logins and passwords for each group of pages, just add a one-byte flag field to your user table. A flag field uses individual bits of the byte to store and retrieve boolean values using bitwise operators.
Say a user has already done the Group I pages, and pays for Groups 2 and 3. If you use a simplified method, with each bit in the byte field representing one of the groups, you will want to turn on bits 1 and 2 (they're zero-based). All you have to do is OR the current value of the byte field with decimal six. Bit 1 (the second-least significant bit) has a value of two to the first, or two, and bit 2 has a value of two to the second, or four, so ORing the field with decimal six turns on those two bits, representing Groups 2 and 3.
When they try to go to the page, just query that field and AND its value with the decimal number associated with the Group the page belongs to. For a page in Group 3, that value is four. Even though other bits may be turned on, the only one you're concerned with for that page is its bit flag. If you AND four with 00000100, or with 01010101, or 11111111, or any value that has the third bit from the right turned on, the value is a logical TRUE, and the user gets the page. If he has not paid for that page, bit 2 (third from the right) is not set, and ANDing the field's value with four yields a logical FALSE, so you deny the page.
Maybe this will help
00000001 = bit zero set, decimal value = 1
00000010 = bit one set, decimal value = 2
00000100 = bit two set, decimal value = 4
. . .
00001100 = bits two and three set, decimal value = 12
Hmm, you know, I should never have started this here; it's beginning to grow like Topsy. Tell you what, here's a how-to, with examples in both C# and VB.NET http://dotnet.org.za/kevint/pages/Flags.aspx . The point is, you can save considerable hassle by having a single login for each customer, no matter their level of purchase, and once logged in, determining access to individual pages by comparing the Group # of that page to the value stored in a single field of the logged-in user's record (which can be kept in a session variable and available while the session lasts). No need to re-login for each group, or maintain multiple username/password pairs, any of that. Just one single byte or smallint field can store all you need to have beyond the customer's login info.
cheers,
scott
- Edited bypaladyn Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:06 AM
- Perhaps you will find the tutorial I just created useful
http://www.homepagedoctor.com/ExpressionTutorials/CreatingMembershipSite.htm
ClarkNK, QVP
HomePage Doctor CHO
HomePageDoctor.com -- Expression Web database tutorials
Ownertrades.com -- Created with FP, Access, Bots and Wizards
MyNumbersTracker.com -- Created with Expression, VWDExress, SQL Express, and ASP.NET. - This is awesome!!! I was having a hard time finding information on how to do this...
Thanks... - This is perfect, Scott.
I knew that there had to be an easy way to do this...
Thank you very much!!!
