Where/when is version 3
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Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:54 PMWell, I received mail today to say that Expressions 3 was released, and true to rumours it does not contain Media. A search of Microsoft sites failed to find any mention of EM as a stand alone product, in fact I was unable to find where to purchase EM2, other that the usual Amazon and the like places.
All the Product developer blogs show no activity for many months, I don't get it, where has everyone gone? Have they been abducted by aliens or moved to another product perhaps?
This has to be the most closely guarded secret in the history of computers, not one leak at all. I've seen the software guru's on here so I challenge you, give us a hint, a morsel, anything!!
Ray
All Replies
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Saturday, July 11, 2009 7:48 PMI agree. Other than this forum, as far as the Microsoft web site is concerned, it's like EM 2 never existed. Gone, ...all traces removed. If you search for "expression media" on the site and try the links it either kicks you back to the Expression Studio 3 page or to a blank page. It is clear that a conscious effort was made to remove the product. I've never heard of a software company dropping a product from its web site, then trying to reassure everyone that everything is OK, nothing to worry about..business as usual...
As someone that has a lot of images, and many, many hours of work invested in cataloging, categorizing and keywording them in EM2, this is very troublesome. I'm trying not to be paranoid but I don't have a good feeling about any of this. Is EM going to be the next Microsoft Money?? I'm trying to be optimistic but that seems to be the most logical conclusion to reach.
I would't hold out for some of the support staff to provide any revealing information. No offense to them, but I'm sure they've been given "talking points" to say when someone questions recent events. Until Microsoft make some official statement about the product they are going to be limited to responses like "can't comment on the future of the product", "microsoft will continue to support its customers," etc. Again, I'm not slighting them, I'm sure they not allowed to say more.
John- Edited by azjohn Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:19 PM
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Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:57 PMModeratorhello all,
Please be patient - since they pulled Expression Media out of the suite, we are in transition. It will take a little time to get everything settled. Remember, it's only been a very short time since we brought out the latest service pack. Full development cycles are frequently 1 to 2 years in length.
Anita Oakley -
Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:16 PMAnita thank you, this is all I/we ask for, just a little word here and there to comfort us.
I'm reading into your message that you know more than you're letting on, that's ok, I don't expect you to divulge any confidential information, except maybe once in while :D
Ray -
Monday, July 13, 2009 4:24 PMBy all appearances it seems that Expression Media has been completely discontinued. Even pages that originally linked to information about the product now point to the Studio 3 page that contains nothing about it.Anita (or anyone) - can you confirm or deny that it's been discontinued? Or perhaps it will be a new version of iView, and released independently again?Those of us who rely on the product really need to know what's going on with it. Otherwise we need to look for other options that are continuing development. Extensis Portfolio has its advantages and disadvantages, but it's still being developed and supported, which would completely outweigh iView/ExpressionMedia if it's not!Thankskevin
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Monday, July 13, 2009 4:33 PM
hello all,
Please be patient - since they pulled Expression Media out of the suite, we are in transition. It will take a little time to get everything settled. Remember, it's only been a very short time since we brought out the latest service pack. Full development cycles are frequently 1 to 2 years in length.
Anita Oakley
You've got to be kidding !! If this didn't have the Microsoft logo on it, there would not be any other developer on the planet that could just say "please be patient." Full development cycles may be long, but there is INFORMATION provided to customers along the way. Lots of it. This forum and the paucity of replies over time, has caused me to wonder about my investment in time and money in this product. Perhaps there is just too small a customer base, I don't know. It is almost as if we are talking to ourselves. "Pulled EM out of the suite" sounds to me like the program is toast, or perhaps will revert to the original developers or, perhaps they are just throwing in the towel to Adobe Lightroom or Photo Mechanic. Even ACDSee is developing version 3 of their product. Photo Mechanic is supposed to be working on a cataloging feature.
As goofy as this all sounds to me, I continue to really love the interface and features of EM2 and I would hate to see it go.... as long as there is a fix to the maximum catalog size. For a Nikon shooter using Capture NX2 I still think this is the best cataloging program out there. I guess I will hang on a while longer.... -
Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:32 PMThe product is now listed at its "new home" on the professional photography site, here:
http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/default.aspx
from which there is a link to the product page here:
http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/expressionmedia2/default.aspx
Best regards,
Wayne Smith
Group Product Manager, Expression Studio -
Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:51 AMThanks, Wayne. Good to know. It actually makes sense for it to be in that category, though the name is confusing if it's not part of the studio (something I imagine will corrected on future versions?)Also, there are lots of links out there that point only to the Expression Studio page, so most people would still assume it's discontinued (and they'll buy Lightroom, Aperture, or Extensis Portfolio instead). :)
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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:50 AMYes, there really needs to be a link on the Expression Studio page that tells people where EM went.
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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:54 AMWayne,
On the the pro photo site, (EM's "New Home") under Resources, if I click on the "Expression Media Product Site" link it takes me once again back to the Expression Studio page, where as we know, there is no mention of EM.
Again, on the new EM page under the Pro Photo area, if I click on "Buy Now," and try to buy EM 2 it takes me to a page where I can buy Expression Studio 3 products, but EM 2 is not even listed.
If I hadn't read this thread in this forum I would assume the EM is gone.
Regarding the comment that "we are in transition. It will take a little time to get everything settled. " I have never heard of a major corporation that updates its website bit by bit, over several days, with missing products, bad links, and incorrect pages. What should happen is you build a complete updated version, make sure all your links and pages are ready, then roll out everything at once seemlessly. You're microsoft, not some high school drop out selling code out of his apartment. I know you can't comment about this and that you may be as frustrated as I and so I may be "preaching to the choir."
(my comments are not aimed at you or those that support this forum, just the unprofessional way this is being handled -- please pardon my rant and my frustration)
John- Edited by azjohn Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:21 AM typos
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Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:57 AMHi there,
well I don't know what to think about this. I'd like to see an official statement regarding the future of EM2: Will it be continued or not? And will there be a version 3.0 and when?
Regards,
Tyler -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:22 PMModerator
Hello all,
The new home for Expression Media is on http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto/expressionmedia2/default.aspx. There may have been a problem with the links when it first switched over, but they are fixed now. When I click the buy now link, it takes me to a page to purchase Expression Media 2.
The rest of the content for training materials and so forth are still on the community site - http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/cc197143.aspx.
Regards,
Anita Oakley -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:46 PMBut still no confirmation if EM3 is on the way OR not. Sigh. Just tell us one way or another so we can wait or move on to another product. EM3 currently is useless for anyone with any real amount of photos--slow and locks up constantly as the catalogs increase.
I sit waiting only because I put so much time into my catalogs so far, and if EM3 fixed the slowness I'd happily use it again. -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:18 PMAnita - Thanks for the update. However, when I click on Buy Now on the new EM 2 Page (using the link above) I get the Expression Studio purchase link and no option to buy EM. Maybe these pages are on different servers, and I'm going to a different server than you, and everything has not been updated yet. Hopefully this will get straighted out.
Eric (and others that want the forum moderators to make a definitive statment on the future of EM) - Based on the fact that EM was pulled from the suite, no version 3 was developed, and everyone is being silent on the future, I'm assuming that there is probably internal discussions going on about the future of EM. That could be a good thing. They may decide to focus on the photography market and develop the product around our needs. I've alway felt that trying to make this into a tool for web developers, in addition to photographers, was a bad idea. However it could mean that they are looking for another company to buy it or are thinking about dropping it. Until some decision is made and a public announcement comes out, it will be the "waiting game" for us and I doubt that any of the forum moderators are at liberty to say anything. (I'm just an end-user and all of this is pure speculation on my part.) -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:26 PMOne other thing to fix on the site. On this link:
http://expression.microsoft.com/en-us/cc136523.aspx
There is a listing for "Expression Media 3" I'm assuming that is a typo.
John -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:41 PMModeratorThanks - at this point, yes.
Anita -
Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:35 PMI hear your frustration John, and share it more than a little. Yes, was are a huge corporation, but on a departmental level we're just humans who are trying very hard to do the right thing and sometimes we get things wrong.
What we can do is listen and fix, and we've certainly done a bit of that so far with the links that have been pointed out as being wrong.
Best regards,
Wayne -
Tuesday, July 21, 2009 4:40 PMWell, at least I'm excited about EW3, can't wait actually. I wish they fixed the text selection bug though, I guess a service pack will be coming later for that, lol. Also wish the interface color scheme could have a couple options, not a big fan of the black (I say this as a hint if thinking about EM3 interface.
In general I don't like Win7 UI that much either. I really would like to chose some various skins to select the once that fits my taste best. The classis start menu is also gone and after using the Win7 one for a while (similar to Vista, XP) I just don't like it. Why not offer classic and multiple skins? .NET has masterpage tech, isn't that in concept applied to MS software? The ability to have a few layouts can't be that hard, is it? Too much overheard?
WAAAY of subject. Sorry. But seriously, I'm like a week away from chosing another image management software if I don't hear some news one way or another. I've went long enough with EM completely freezing and being unusable right now due to catalog size. -
Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:06 PMI'm right there with you Eric. I'm starting to look around at other software/solutions myself.
I'm a LONG time fan of iView Media, but MS Expression Media SP2 is entirely too unstable for use. I'm in panic mode now, because it's actually unusable! If I simply click a thumbnail image, the entire folder disappears, and it will not reload the folder. So I'm stuck. If I save that catalog (even though it's wrong), and restart MS Exp., it will crash...every time.
If it's not going to load all my folders, then what use is it? If it's going to constantly crash, what use is it?
My only option is to find software that actually works. :(
Sadly, Microsoft does NOT understand how critical this software is for photographers who need this for their business! :/
Microsoft is far too slow to respond/fix these serious (fatal) bugs. Businesses cannot and will not depend on this software for their photography catalogs. It's impossible as it stands now... -
Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:36 PM
I hear your frustration John, and share it more than a little. Yes, was are a huge corporation, but on a departmental level we're just humans who are trying very hard to do the right thing and sometimes we get things wrong.
What we can do is listen and fix, and we've certainly done a bit of that so far with the links that have been pointed out as being wrong.
Best regards,
Wayne
I have little time so I must be blunt.
Attempting to put a personal face on this only serves to further frustrate those for whom business is business and not a friendship state. This isn't a personal issue nor should anyone try to make it that way.
Microsoft bought out a software platform on which many professionals had already been building archive infrastructures. Now, after 18 months, for whatever reasons, Microsoft appears to have isolated the product and the users who rely on it in a black hole of uncertainty. No professional support appears to be available, and attempting to locate the product has become increasingly difficult.
I am already seeing the blogs and professional forums beginning to rumble about this. If the current pattern of behavior on the part of Microsoft continues, I suspect that it will due to the fact that the responsible individuals within the company don't have a sufficient appreciation for the size of what happens next. You may have underestimated the creative fury this market can produce.
It's time to wake up now if you please. -
Friday, July 31, 2009 1:50 AMThis is just hysterical.
On the main prophoto page, the page that expressions has migrated to is an add for what I assumed was one of the new Lenovo laptops that are geared for pro photographers.
Noooooo it was a link to a vacation site .
Ummm could you fix it since probably many people would like to read about the new lenovo??
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Monday, August 03, 2009 1:44 PMModerator
Yikes! I'll report that for you!
Anita Oakley -
Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:57 PMSo - I haven't seen a straight answer yet - is there a future for Expression Media (Mac platform specifically for me)? If so, it's amazingly difficult to find out anything about this product on the Microsoft sites - certainly not reassuring to a long time IVMPro/MEM2 user! Like others - clicking on any link to buy EM2 brings me to a product page which doesn't mention EM2.
Mike -
Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:20 PMMike,
From an earlier post by Anita...
"Here is a link to the purchase page: http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Expression-Media-2/product/22BAF805 "
I hope this helps,
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com -
Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:20 AMThis situation to me does not require phds in economics and software development to see EM is getting trashed or sold. They would swiftly be assuring the rank and file MS have no intention of discontinuing EM if not. What a great chance to advertise!They're not advertising.Perhaps I'm dumb and I need phds.Or maybe I don't.So my question is, can I export my keywords and hierarchical keywords and star ratings to Aperture or Lightroom? I just started working on EM but did some research and I will perhaps discontinue pronto if I'm not assured I can.usaguy
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Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:02 PMPreston
Yes - with enough time and digging it is possible to find links to purchase EM2 - but the effort required is not consistent with this being a fully supported product. Looking back at posts from people in the know, answers to questions regarding the future of this product are not very reassuring either.
I'd like to see 'release date' and 'Expression Media 3 (Mac)' in the same sentence by someone in the know.
Mike -
Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:10 PMI find myself in agreement you, Mike. It isn't straightfoward at all. When EM was actually part of the Expression suite, everything was right there.
It seems to me that if a vendor wants to sell something, it should be relatively easy to do so. The same concept also needs to be applied to obtaining support if things aren't working correctly. To my mind, support for installation of a product should be at no cost, and easy to access. (Support for installation problems for MS products is free, but accessing it is a pain.) I know it costs money to provide support where one actually speaks with a person. Such support could be included in the purchase price for (say) three distinct issues for the purpose of cost recovery. If the added cost was reasonable, such a course may increase sales.
I too am looking forward to v3 of EM. I just hope MS doesn't use that horrific black UI that is used in Expression Web 3, but gives us a choice of UI color. I need a great DAM program, and EM, even with its warts, is pretty darn good. Hopefully, v3 will fix them, and, like others here, I am wondering when/if a version 3 of EM will come down the pike. It would be great to get something truly definitive from the EM dev team on this.
Cheers,
-Preston
Columbia, CA. USA http://www.gildedmoon.com -
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I would not be at all surprised if EM disappears. This does appear to be the initial death throes of a niche application with a relatively small user base (as compared to other MS products).
Question: Is it profitable?
Answer: Probably not.
Decision: Kill it - slowly.
Need a very good DAM application? Not very many of them about - not true DAM apps anyway.
Extensis Portfolio - clunky.
Idimager - very good but PC only.
There are others but most a horrendously expensive.Ian
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Saturday, August 15, 2009 3:32 AMSo - the question is out there. Is there going to be an EMv3? Nothing except a continued awkward (and telling?) silence from those in the know.
Time to start looking for a replacement - and converting the hundreds of catalogues I have stored using EMv2. Too bad MS got its hands on the original IVMP product only to kill it a year or so later.
Mike -
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:42 PM
Hello,
I use Capture One Pro 4 as RAW-Conferter by "Phase One". Phase One makes special offers for Expression Media 2 (http://www.phaseone.com/Content/EshopMenu/SpecialOffers.aspx) if you use Capture One Pro. There will be a development for further integrations between Capure One and EM. If this will be a SP3 or a new Version I and when it will be happen I don't know.
Wolf
PS.: Doesn't support this Forum Opera?
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Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:33 PMI'm a moderately active user on the mac side with catalogs >40k items in constant use. I currently see none of the slowdowns that many report (is this ironically just a windows problem?) and it is more or less at the same capability of iview when MS bought it, but with light table, better speed on thumbnails, better error checking and -touch wood- no database corruptions.With all this discussion I have to say I sure hope that EM 3 isn't just waiting in the wings. I think it would be a sad thing if I wasn't on beta testing of a new version. My humble logic says since I'm not, there's no EM3 in the wings yet. I think the most critical thing EM needs is better cataloging interface.As to being out of the bigger expression package/suite, yea! I've no interest in all in all the other pieces. I do want improvements in export capabilities, but making fancy complex sites is not for me.Peter
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Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:06 AM
With the explosion of digital media at public disposal, is this the time to exit the D.A.M. business for Microsoft? I can't account for the silence from Microsoft, but I did speak with a technician who helped me install EM2 today asked him why EM2 was taken out of suite. He didn't know. I asked him if it's going to be discontinued, and he seemed genuinely surprised. He candidly said, 'I hope not, because this is my job! I work helping people with this!' So either he was coached really well or he didn't know about it. I don't think he knew about it being stopped.
Check this:
"Analysts at IDC concur: “IDC believes the digital asset management market will enjoy a compound annual growth rate of more than 25 percent during the period of 2006-2010, outperforming the overall content management market…and the software market as a whole, by a wide margin…DAM will remain an independent and lively market…given the specialized requirements of DAM solutions.” http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-323002.html
Maybe at some point they will combine EM into windows itself. Hmmm. I can't see them throwing EM away for some reason. It's too useful and there's not much else out there that does the same thing that I have seen. Anyone seen any alternatives? -
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42 AMIt looks very much to me that EM is going to be dropped. References are removed, the product is removed from the suite, continuous stalling on this forum and everywhere else I have found discussions with Microsoft staff. There are no straight answers from anyone at MS.
My opinion is that they bought a dud... there are major performance issues, both with capacity and network performance, and they can't fix these issues wihout major redevelopment which is not going to be financially wothwhile. Just my opinion you understand...
Fortunately I now use Adobe CS4 and Adobe Bridge is a very similar product. CS4 is expensive but if your business depends on media then it is well worth having a product that works. -
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:36 PMMy main gripe if they were to really kill off Expression Media (I have no inside information that they'll do it) is this:
There are good SilverLight and HTML galleries in the product. It's a very common desire for a "web designer" to make some kind of photo gallery. By removing Media from the suite they've made it more difficult for a web guy to use an "in suite" product to create the galleries.
Furthermore, I don't think that there is another application out there that spits out SilverLight applications.
</IMHO>Chris Leeds
Join My Expression Studio SIG, I'll make it worth your while. ;-)
Microsoft Press "Expression Web Step by Step" -
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:07 PM
Actually, Adobe Bridge is a file browser and not a cataloging application. On the surface they may appear similar at first but there are very dramatic differences between the two applications. It may not be significant for those with small libraries, but for those that have terabytes of digital assets to catalog, manage, and search, Bridge simply cannot compete in any meaningful way.
Fortunately I now use Adobe CS4 and Adobe Bridge is a very similar product. CS4 is expensive but if your business depends on media then it is well worth having a product that works.
I actually use both of these in my workflow and they each serve a different need and are not interchangeable. -
Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:00 PMIt's really a horror how Microsoft behaves with EM. I also wait since months for any information about the future of EM. And I am waiting for responses in support forums like "Microsoft Connect" (e.g. http://social.expression.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/media/thread/996446c5-c2c9-4980-b1e6-1dfdfb78c983 ).
Perhaps it's time to start a online petition or the bloggers around should become more active to wake Microsoft up!!! But the community seems to be too small or too week - that's frustrating.
I also put a lot of time and effort in EM databases and I need it for professional work. And I don't see another products which meets my demands. I am a graphic artist and photographer working with lots of images.
I am really at the end of any patience and to tell the truth it confirms my preconceptions about Microsoft. WHY THE HE** DID THEY BUY THIS PRODUCT IF THEY DON'T SUPPORT AND DEVELOP IT AFTER SUCH A SHORT TIME??? Only to play around now with a "pro photo customer market" and before with a designer market? This doesn't make sense and it's not professional at all.
You can't target to a professional market with being unprofessional und unserious. If it's not profitable for them, they should give it back to an independent developer or a small company for not loosing all of their seriousness - I believe they would do a better work even with less manpower and financial power as Microsoft.
OR FINALLY INFORM THEIR EXISTING CUSTOMERS!
(... who in many cases have unintentionally become Microsoft customers when they bought iViewMediaPro - specially those from the Macintosh platform... bye the way ...)- Edited by p_horn Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:05 PM
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Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:36 PMAnita has forwarded me this thread and asked that we address some of the issues raised here. I appreciate the passion and enthusiasm that each of you has for Expression Media.
First I want to apologize for the seeming disappearance of Expression Media from our website. Microsoft decided to shift Expression Media from the Expression Studio in the v3 release due to the differences in the target markets (designers vs photographers), and we have moved the product information to our photography portal http://www.microsoft.com/prophoto. In the transition, we did not do a good job of redirecting customers from the Expression Studio pages to the photo portal -- something that we are correcting now.
Recently we released Expression Media 2 Service Pack 2, and we subsequently re-released it a month later to correct some bugs -- largely in part to the folks on this forum. In the last few months we have been working on our plans for the future of Expression Media. At this time I cannot share details of our plans, but we are actively working on the future of the product.
Microsoft will continue to provide support for Expression Media, and I want to thank Anita, JP, and Tom for their dedication to the product. They're some of the best support resources and customer advocates I've ever seen.
Please feel free to contact me with your questions, feedback, and frustrations.
Josh Weisberg
Director, Rich Media Group
Microsoft
joshwe@microsoft.com -
Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:54 PM
Well, at least I'm excited about EW3, can't wait actually. I wish they fixed the text selection bug though, I guess a service pack will be coming later for that, lol. Also wish the interface color scheme could have a couple options, not a big fan of the black (I say this as a hint if thinking about EM3 interface.
In general I don't like Win7 UI that much either. I really would like to chose some various skins to select the once that fits my taste best. The classis start menu is also gone and after using the Win7 one for a while (similar to Vista, XP) I just don't like it. Why not offer classic and multiple skins? .NET has masterpage tech, isn't that in concept applied to MS software? The ability to have a few layouts can't be that hard, is it? Too much overheard?
WAAAY of subject. Sorry. But seriously, I'm like a week away from chosing another image management software if I don't hear some news one way or another. I've went long enough with EM completely freezing and being unusable right now due to catalog size.
Off topic reply to off topic item: I did prefer the classy glassy look of Vista but I much prefer the performance, responsiveness, and numerous goodies such as excellent power management of Win 7, superior gadget management, even better network connectivity, and on and on. BTW, did I mention performance?
